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» What’s to Blame for the Rains on the Plains?

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NewsBusters - Global Warming

» CNN's Blitzer: 'I Don't Remember' Biden's Law School Plagiarism

» CNN's Chetry: 'Please Tell Me It's Not Lipstick Again'

» MRC Report Asks: Why No Fairness Doctrine for PBS?

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Science and Public Policy Institute

» Response of Fish to Ocean Warming

» Additional Grounds for Rejecting Biofuels

» The Global Medieval Warm Period

» Growth Rates of Old Versus Young Forest Trees

» Water Use Efficiency of Agricultural Species

» Tropical Trees

» Global Temperatures and Biospheric Productivity

» Rewriting Sunspot History

» Analysis of the Second Order Draft of the Working I Contribution to IPCC 5AR

» The Economics of Biofuels

» The Warming-Induced Evolution of Terrestrial Plants

» Medieval Warm Period in Southern Europe

» Effects of Elevated C02 on the Stomatal Conductance of Agricultural Crops

» Response of Various Marine Animals to Ocean Warming

» Medieval Warm Period in Central Europe

» Growth Response of Grassland Species to Elevated C02 When Water Stressed

» Effects of Increased C02 on Herbaceous Plant Pests

» Medieval Warm Period in Northern Europe

» Loblolly Pines Defy the Progressive Nitrogen Hypothesis

» Response of Crustaceans to Ocean Warming

» Energy Inefficiencies of Biofuels

» Response of Marine Plants to Changes in Temperature

» Biofuels: The Carbon Debt They Owe

» Medieval Warm Period in Japan

» Response of Corals to Ocean Acidification

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Climate Science: Roger Pielke Sr. Research Group

» Roger Pielke Sr. is now on Twitter!

» 2012 Climate Science Weblog in Review by Dallas Jean Staley – A Guest Post

» The Weblog Is Retiring

» Publication Of “Reply to “Comment On ‘Ocean Heat Content And Earth’s Radiation Imbalance. II. Relation To Climate Shifts’ ” by Nuccitelli Et Al. By Douglass and Knox 2012

» Q&A From A Group Of Retired NASA Personnel And Associates

» The Importance of Land Use/Land Practices On Climate – A Perspective From Jon Foley

» Interview With James Wynn In The English Department At Carnegie Mellon University

» University Of Alabama At Huntsville October 2012 Lower Tropospheric Temperature Analysis

» USA Election Day 2012

» New Paper “Climatic Variability Over Time Scales Spanning Nine Orders of Magnitude: Connecting Milankovitch Cycles With Hurst–Kolmogorov Dynamics” By Markonis And Koutsoyiannis

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» Anti-SLAPP Hearing Today

» New Data and Upside-Down Moberg

» Data Torture in Gergis2K

» PAGES2K and Nature’s Policy against Self-Plagiarism

» Gergis2K and the Oroko “Disturbance-Corrected” Blade

» Gergis and the PAGES2K Regional Average

» The Kaufman Tautology

» Warmest since, uh, the Medieval Warm Period

» The Third Warmest Arctic Century

» Gavin Schmidt and the EPA Denial Decision

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Watts Up With That?

» Open Thread

» A big (goose) step backwards

» The Art of Art

» Claim: A warming world may spell bad news for honey bees

» Model claim: airplanes of the future won’t be able to take off at some airports due to global warming

» Better forecasts for sea ice under climate change?

» Claim: Researchers find way to turn sawdust into gasoline

» Michael Mann lawsuit appeal to be streamed live today

» Russian Official is Optimistic about Global Warming

» A First Look At SURFRAD

» Michigan State professor labels skeptics as “global warming cynics” due to not getting on board with the extreme weather link

» Surprise: Robot Sub Finds Much Thicker Than Expected Antarctic Sea Ice

***
Global Warming News

» Supreme Court to Review EPA’s Mercury (Utility MACT) Rule — We Told You So!

» U.S.-China Climate Deal: Who Snookered Whom?

» Renewable Fuel Standard: EPA Retreats from Cutbacks

» EPA Air Regulations: 15% Real-Dollar (35% Nominal-Dollar) Increase in Utility Bills by 2020, Study Finds

» No Brainer: Senate Should Approve Keystone XL

» The Profound Political Illegitimacy of Obama’s Climate “Deal” with China

» Carbon Tax Advocates Discuss Post-Election Prospects; Ignore Lesson of Plato’s Republic

» A Single Non-Binding Climate “Deal” with China Is Meaningless, But a Series of Them Could Be Trouble

» Obama, Xi Agree on Meaningless Climate Deal

» Cellulosic Ethanol: KiOR Files for Bankruptcy

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Fox News - Climate Change Stories

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Michelle Malkin - Enviro-Nitwits

» Berkeley City Council votes to put ‘climate change’ warning labels on gas pumps

» White House: Do something about ‘climate change’ or prepare for a fiery death — or worse

» ‘XL’ in Keystone XL stands for X-tra Lethal, says abortion advocate Barbara Boxer; Updated

» More chilling news for Al Gore

» Emission Impossible: Obama reaches ‘climate change’ agreement with China

***
DailyTech Michael Asher`s blog

» Will the Real Antarctica Please Stand Up?

» Global Warming May Decrease Hurricanes, Research Suggests

» Japanese Report Disputes Human Cause for Global Warming

» Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

» A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the (Climate) Forum

» Climate Report Downgrades Ice Loss; Media Reports Opposite

» Princeton Physicist Calls Global Warming Science "Mistaken"

» Defying Predictions, Sea Level Rise Begins to Slow

» Electric Car Sales in Freefall; Industry Risks Collapse

» Glaciers in Norway Growing Again

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C3 - Climate Cycles Change

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CATO - Global Warming

» Some Perspective on What We Have to Be Thankful For

» NSA Reform -- The Consequences of Failure

» U.S. Filled Okinawa with Bases and Japan Kept Them There: Okinawans Again Say No

» The Uniquely Widespread Presidential Campaign of Rand Paul

» China Takes another Step toward Capital Freedom

» Bury Lenin's Body and the Rest of Communism: In Red Square He Lies in State, Mocking Humanity

» America's Dangerous Double Standard on Air and Sea "Provocations"

» Going Overboard at the Labor Board

» NAGPRA, Indian Burials, and the Unquiet Grave

» The School Religious Holidays Problem Is Really a Public Schooling Problem

» Currency Wars, the Ruble and Keynes

» Inequality and Envy

» Bad Laws Lead to Bad Executive Orders

» Bring China and Its Neighbors Under the INF Missile Treaty

» A Perplexing Foreign Policy

» NSA Reform: Not Dead Yet

» A Constitutional Amendment on Marriage

» America's Leadership Crisis--and Its Economic Implications

» An Awkward Celebration in the Heart of Europe

» What the Inequality Warriors Really Want

» Why Congress Should Legalize Pot

» The 2014 Tax Revolt

» Why Ending FEMA Will Improve Disaster Response

» Letter to the Editor: Not One Rule for Thee, But Another for Me

» Ukrainian Crisis Must Not Become a Frozen Conflict

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CanadaFreePress - Global Warming

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Headlines

»Pennsylvania snowfall shatters 114-year-old records
»Al Gore still at it: Links everything to AGW: ‘Showed photos of a submerged Manhattan street after Hurricane Sandy in 2012, destruction left by Typhoon Haiyan’
»Way to go Aussies! ‘Australia out of step with new climate momentum’
»New paper finds strong evidence the Sun has controlled climate over the past 11,000 years, not CO2 – Published in Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics
»‘Why Does Obama Want To Kill The African Dream?’
»Daily ‘Die Welt’ Reports German Greens Facing Political Extinction… ‘Apocalyptic Narrative Approaching An End’
»Model claim: airplanes of the future won’t be able to take off at some airports due to global warming
»Winnipeg zoo unashamedly frightens children about polar bear extinction, for a price
»The Peer Review Scam: Why not review your own paper?
»German Climate Institute Frets Media Are Showing So ‘Little Interest’ In Latest IPCC Report!


Date published: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 20:50:51 +0000
Details

»Frostweed Time Lapse, Take 2
This is my second attempt at capturing a “frost flower” growing out of the frostweed pla ...
»CA Drought Relief this Weekend
A Pacific storm system continues its trek to California where it promises to bring 3 to 6 inches of ...
»Major Storm to Bring Drought Relief to California
Tuesday Morning (11/25) Update: It now looks like portions of Northern California could get as much ...
»A Snowy Thanksgiving for NYC?
It is increasingly looking like New York City could have only its second white Thanksgiving in 75 ye ...
»Are Personal Drones Dangerous Enough to be Banned?
For months I’ve been wrestling with the urge to get a quadcopter drone for photography, and I ...
»Is Global Warming Causing More Snowstorms? No, It Isn’t
It has become axiomatic (and fashionable) that any change we see in nature is caused by global warmi ...
»That Epic, Fickle, Shovel-off-to-Buffalo Snow: An All-Time U.S. Record?
(NEW: Is Global Warming Causing More Snowstorms?) I have a special place in my heart for lake effect ...
»Frost Flower Growing Time Lapse
When I left the house for work yesterday morning, I saw what looked like tissues on the ground in th ...
»Buffalo Area Reeling from Snowstorm
Update 10:20 a.m. EST Wed. Nov. 19: Local NWS has stated isolated areas on the south side of Buffalo ...
»A Year in the Life of CO2
This is pretty cool. A NASA model simulation of how CO2 (and carbon monoxide) is transported after i ...


Date published: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 16:43:46 +0000
Details

»Layman’s Primer on the Climate Skeptic Position
I am a “lukewarmer”, which means a skeptic that agrees that man-made CO2 is incrementall ...
»When Climate Alarmism Limits Environmental Progress
One of my favorite sayings is that “years from now, environmentalists will look back on the cu ...
»Why We Are Exaggerating “Extreme Weather”
I have written in article at Forbes.com called Summer of the Shark, Global Warming Edition.  It desc ...
»HydroInfra: Scam! Investment Honeypot for Climate Alarmists
Cross-posted from Coyoteblog. I got an email today from some random Gmail account asking me to write ...
»Presentation: The Science of the Skeptic Position
Here is the most recent version of my presentation “Don’t Panic: The Science of the Clim ...
»Switching Back to Disqus
For a variety of reasons, I had to turn off Disqus a while back.  We are going back to it for commen ...
»Reconciling Conflicting Climate Claims
Cross-posted from Coyoteblog At Real Science, Steven Goddard claims this is the coolest summer on re ...
»Computer Models as “Evidence”
Cross-posted from Coyoteblog The BBC has decided not to every talk to climate skeptics again, in par ...
»Another Plea to Global Warming Alarmists on the Phrase “Climate Denier”
Cross-posted from Coyoteblog Stop calling me and other skeptics “climate deniers“.  No o ...
»My Thoughts on Steven Goddard and His Fabricated Temperature Data Claim
Cross-posted from Coyote Blog. Steven Goddard of the Real Science blog has a study that claims that ...


Date published: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:26:38 +0000
Details

»Leading Climate Scientist Defects: No Longer Believes in the ‘Consensus’
By James Delingpole - One of the world’s most eminent climate scientists – for several d ...
»Global Warming and Settled Science
By Andre Lofthus The AGW community would have you believe that the science in favor of AGW is settle ...
»The Tragedy of Earth Day
By Doug L. Hoffman - It is Earth Day today, a chance for all tree huggers, green activists and other ...
»Climate scientist’s emails are shielded from disclosure, Virginia Supreme Court says
By Debra Cassens Weiss - The Virginia Supreme Court has ruled that a climate scientist’s emails are ...
»Global Warming’s Upside-Down Narrative
By Bjorn Lomborg - When politicians around the world tell the story of global warming, they cast it ...


Date published: Thu, 08 May 2014 20:29:04 +0000
Details

»Anti-SLAPP Hearing Today
Mann v CEI, National Review, Simberg, Steyn and their amici is being argued today. Amici for Steyn, ...
»New Data and Upside-Down Moberg
I’ve been re-examining SH proxies for some time now, both in connection with PAGES2K and out o ...
»Data Torture in Gergis2K
Reflecting on then current scandals in psychology arising from non-replicable research,  E. Wagenmak ...
»PAGES2K and Nature’s Policy against Self-Plagiarism
Nature’s policies on plagiarism state: Duplicate publication, sometimes called self-plagiarism ...
»Gergis2K and the Oroko “Disturbance-Corrected” Blade
Only two Gergis proxies (both tree ring) go back to the medieval period: Oroko Swamp, New Zealand an ...
»Gergis and the PAGES2K Regional Average
The calculation of the PAGES2K regional average contains a very odd procedure that thus far has esca ...
»The Kaufman Tautology
The revised PAGES2K Arctic reconstruction used 56 proxies (down three from the original 59).  Althou ...
»Warmest since, uh, the Medieval Warm Period
The money quote in the PAGES2K abstract was that there wasn’t any worldwide Little Ice Age of ...
»The Third Warmest Arctic Century
PAGES2K (2013) unequivocally stated that the Arctic was “warmest during the 20th century ...
»Gavin Schmidt and the EPA Denial Decision
About eight weeks ago, Jean S postulated that Gavin Schmidt had been involved in writing the documen ...


Date published: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 21:51:06 +0000
Details

»Response of Fish to Ocean Warming
According to the IPCC, CO2-induced global warming will be net harmful to the world's marine species. ...
»Additional Grounds for Rejecting Biofuels
In July of 1987, as described by U.S. Department of Agriculture researchers Idso and Kimball (2001), ...
»The Global Medieval Warm Period
Between the 10th and 14th centuries AD, earth's average global temperature may have been warmer than ...
»Growth Rates of Old Versus Young Forest Trees
The planting and preservation of forests has long been acknowledged to be an effective and environme ...
»Water Use Efficiency of Agricultural Species
In some cases, the water-use efficiency increases caused by atmospheric CO2 enrichment are spectacul ...
»Tropical Trees
Going back in time to the final few years of the 20th century, Schaffer et al. (1997) grew two mango ...
»Global Temperatures and Biospheric Productivity
Among the many climate-alarmist fears of CO2-induced global warming is the concern that the producti ...
»Rewriting Sunspot History
In 2006, when I first made the mistake of writing publicly of my doubts about the Party Line on manm ...
»Analysis of the Second Order Draft of the Working I Contribution to IPCC 5AR
This new review is unlike the previous analysis because it focuses not only on a statistical analysi ...
»The Economics of Biofuels
Aside from rejecting biofuel expansion and use for environmental reasons (see Biofuels (Land and Wat ...


Date published: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 23:06:54 +0000
Details

»Main stream media now catches up with reality – a double dissolution election is the way forward for the Abbott Government and Australia
I have suggested this on the blog four times since February – A double dissolution election in ...
»Did the Brisbane urban heat island (UHI) affect the location of storms on 27th November 2014?
I was away all yesterday in the boondocks and heard on the car radio news of the Brisbane storms wit ...
»The Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) muddles around again getting further from threshold El Nino conditions
Starting in January we have had no shortage of news items from warmists predicting an El Nino event ...
»Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott famously said “climate change is crap” – maybe he was correct
The Australian newspaper reported that Tony really did say this at Beaufort, Victoria, in December 2009 – Town of Beaufort changed Tony Abbott’s view on climate change But my posts on BoM adjustments to ACORN-SAT Cobar Meteorological Office temperatures 1963-2013 Episode 1 and Episode 2 – raise a new question. Follow the logic here. The [...]
»BoM makes large warming adjustments to minimum temperatures prior 2007 in its own professionally collected Cobar Met Office data but fails to include the 2007 adjustment in their own 2014 published list – Episode 2 Cobar ACORN-SAT
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»How the BoM ACORN SAT project has reconstructed Cobar temperature data commencing with an obviously invalid adjustment – Episode 1 Cobar ACORN-SAT
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»Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop corrects President Obama for speaking rubbish about the Great Barrier Reef at Queensland U during the G20
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»Al Gore effect strikes Brisbane G20 weather forecast – Bureau of Meteorology called for 40°C but Brisbane only got to a warm 32
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Date published: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:39:58 +0000
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Layman's science

Author Post
ron
Fri Jun 19 2009, 09:13PM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
Often is the time where the common man, such as myself, is disenfranchised from scientific debate because we lack the creds, such as a BS, MS, or PhD addended to our name.

That's never stopped me. I've been to college a few times. I am an electrician and started doing electrical work in March of 1983. I have been studying electricity, electrical theory, electronics, physics, and math since about Ocotber of 1974. It was a pivotal year. We moved from California to Texas and my step-grandfather began giving me books and introducing me to that most wonderous treasure, the public libray. You can read about anything you want to learn and no one can stop you.

In organized education and on my own, I have also studied particle physics, linear algebra, n-space geometry, topology, mult0-variable calculus. I've studied a few years of german and have read Einstein's notes in English and the original German. And I have studied basic physics. For the most part, most of us can get by with Newton. When it comes to electrical work, the Bohr model is accurate enough to do what we do. Quantum Mechanics offers some interesting interpretations but if you are an electrician working on an energized circuit, you are safer viewing it from the Bohr perspective.

Anyway, my lack of credentials has not stopped me from reading and trying to understand topics such as global climate. And my background of science and math studies makes it hard for me to ignore the glaring inconsistencies and faults of what I see in the AGW mindset. Granted, we can influence our local environment greatly. I know I have. At times, I've had an attack of gas that ran everyone off. Now, that's influencing the local environment. But it doesn't change the world, at large.

At the basis of science is the practice of observation and the use of the scientific method in testing theories and hypotheses. Collect evidence and make a theory. Test the theory. It may hold until other evidence comes along. If evidence invalidates the theory, either adjust the theory or scrap it all together and make a new theory that accounts for the new evidence, as well as the old evidence. That is science. To adjust data to fit a theory is fantasy. And I see that happening with AGW. It doesn't matter what the evidence is, it is interpreted as supporting AGW. All they have to do is adjust their equations or dream a new causality and their theory is safe, once again. Well, that's just fantasy. Ordinarily, it would be something to chuckle at. The scary thing, is that is has become political and an industry.
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ron
Sat Jun 20 2009, 08:46AM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
Many people do not understand the process of feedback, nor have they been studying electron behavior for as long as I have. There are essentially two types of feed back. Positive feedback and negative feedback. In electronics, the feedback is set by how a transistor is biased for operation. It is often used to modulate a waveform or action. In a transistor operating as an amplifier, the source and the collector are operating at a power factor larger than the input. All the input does is introduce changes of charge in the gate or grid. The change of a few microvolts creates changes in what conducts across the junction. This is negative feedback. In positive feedback the junctions would conduct into saturation, such as the old flip-flop circuits upon which modern computers are based. Those are actually basic simple processes to understand.

In climate, however, there are more factors at play. Clouds are a great example of negative feedback. A cloudy day does several things. The cloud cover holds in some heat from the ground but it also reflects heat back into space from the topside. So, it may not get too hot but it will also not get too cold. That is, the response to one stimulus creates another response that has a remediating or sometimes opposite effect that prevents something from cycling out of control. To the greatest extent, that is how nature works. Concepts of physics and thermodynamics can most easily be described as whether or not something is acted upon by an outside force. The mistake most often made by some people in considering what the climate does is that they do not consider the most powerful outside source, an uncontrolled nuclear reactor 94 million miles above our heads. The ones who say that it doesn't influence us much are simply wrong. That's not an insult or a political point, they are simply wrong. The eruption of one volcano in the effect of reflective aerosols reflecting heat back to space can create a temporary climate change here simply by reducing the amount of sunlight that gets through.

But feedback has a modulating effect. A particular warm season can cause more ice to melt, which changes temp and salinity in the ocean which changes currents and evaporation rates which changes could formation, rain events, cloud cover. And those are mechanisms that have moderating effects. More cloud cover equals more temp equilibrium, more rain, more precipitation in cold climates, which creates more snow and ice that reflect more heat away creating even colder temperatures. Negative feedback.
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Denny
Sat Jun 20 2009, 06:58PM
Registered Member #140
Joined: Sun May 11 2008, 12:38PM
Posts: 2178
Ron, great posts, both of them...keep it up! We appreciate the input!

Denny
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ron
Sun Jun 21 2009, 07:54AM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
Thanks, Denny. I think if I can explain in layman terms, others can understand it easier. Much of actual evidence is displayed in dot graphs and mathematical concepts, which is a language all it's own, but I try to keep things simple, at least for myself.

One of the biggest mistakes in the AGW is a difference of pardigm that does, in fact, ignore the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. AGW believers treat the Earth as a closed system, which it is not. Yes, we have an atmosphere and magnetic belt, but those don't seal us off from the universe at large. Changes in the Sun's behavior do have an effect here. To deny that is to close your eyes and say the sun is not shining. Doing that is like the kid who plugs his ears and says "nanner nanner" so he doesn't have to hear what the adults are saying. Pretending something doesn't exist does not actually make it go away.

Along with the cessation of sunspot activity, there is also precession of orbits. Earth's orbit is not a perfect circle and it varies from slight eliptic to more eliptic. Also, the sun has it's own orbit and does not spin in one exact geometric spot. So, there will be times when the sun is farther away and we are farther and the sunpost cycle is low. And this will have an effect on the weather. It will get colder and all the coal-fired power plants in the world can't stop it. In the not too distant future, we will be praying for some global warming.

Changes may not happen right away. It's June here in Texas. The jetstream has set a ridge over us so the warm air comes from the south and the high pressure and temp inversion knocks down any storms. So, we have highs in the 90's. But summers could drop off gradually. We usually get days and weeks of 100 + F and we call that August. At first, we may only get a few number of days over 100. But year after year a pattern will develope. So, some might say, yeah right. Time will tell. We've already had colder than average winters recently.

Warming is not the problem. Plants grow like crazy when you give them sun, CO2, and water. They don't grow much at all when covered in snow or in temps that don't get above 65 F. That's why people build solariums and hot houses. So they can grow plants in winter, by trapping heat.

Something interesting I have read. Most every knows that CO2 only absorbs and re-emits readiation at a few distinct frequencies. Furthermore, it reaches a saturation point, for lack of a better description. It only absorbs and re-emits to a certain level and is incapable of absorbing more heat or radiation more heat. As a "greenhouse gas," it leaves much to be desired. Or, in other words, at a certain point, it is transparent to heat. It cannot contribute much of anything to global warming.

No, the CO2 scare is thanks to Gore, who didn't get to be president but is still hell-bent on power.
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Denny
Sun Jun 21 2009, 03:31PM
Registered Member #140
Joined: Sun May 11 2008, 12:38PM
Posts: 2178
Say AMEN! I like your Common Sense! Stick around, we need you here!
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ron
Tue Jun 23 2009, 07:23PM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
A question was raised and not answered in the chatbox. The Med Warm period was much warmer than today and more CO2 was in much more abundance, in spite of the current AGW desire to re-align graphs and show that we are near that now. Anyway, the question was asked, how come much higher levels of CO2 did not cause runaway warming and why did the globe, in fact, cool from that? The short answer is that CO2 is not the greenhouse gas that many imagine it to be. And that the sun has more effect than some can admit. And that nature operates on negative feedback. To argue against the past of nature is foolish and unscientific. But you can't hardly stop religious frenzy that wishes to believe one thing regardless of all evidence.
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ron
Tue Jun 23 2009, 07:33PM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
I suppose I can make these layman viewpoints because if someone can, with no doubt, a serious face, contend that CO2 precedes temp, i.e., make statements of fantasy (statements that may or may not coincide with science) then I can certainly put my two cents in there.

Simple fact of the matter is that despite theories that the polar cap sea ice could melt, Caps are growing thicker, glaciers are growing thicker, we have had two record breaking winters in a row. Snow in Iraq? Normally, one could read something like that in science fiction, like that movie with Dennis Quaid where it is snowing in the desert. But now, that actually happened just recently. Snow in North Dakota in June? Don't be silly. Oops, that happened a few weeks ago.

And incredibly cold and nasty weather down under. Normally, Christchurch, New Zealand is the last port of call before going to Antarctica. But sometimes, it's to cold in the southern hemisphere's winter to accomplish much.

The signs are ripe for an ice age. The sun, the cycles of ice ages, the signs, here and there. I do not see cold, snowy winters as a sign of global warming. That's like saying that it's night time because the sun is out. Then again, if it is a matter of faith, one coud say just about anything and justify it.

The other problem I have is with the use of math to support a theory rather than describe an effect. What happens modernly, is that the evidence doesn't fit the theory so the math is adjusted until it does fit. That isn't science. That is fiction, fantasy. And math's weakness is that you can use it to state anything. The Rev. Billy Graham once used the equation 1^3 to show how God could be a trinity. The problem is, the general function is 1^n, which would also prove polytheism, which was not his intent but there you go. Just because someone can use an equation to describe something doesn't mean the equation reflects reality.
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ron
Wed Jun 24 2009, 05:51AM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
CO2 is a gas excreted by any number of processes, from composting of dead vegetable matter to the waste product of an mammal and some other animals. And it is the most stable food source for plants, who give off waste product in the form of oxygen. So, more CO2 means more plants producing more oxygen. No, I fear that we could alter local environment by continuing to produce engines that, more and more, release water vapor as a waste product. But I could be worrying about nothing. Water vapor creates clouds which have a mediating effect. But, of all the gases, it is water vapor that can have an effect. From basic chemistry water is H2O. That's the fluid to watch.
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Sat Jun 27 2009, 07:20PM
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In the crawling news links on the left, there was a study showing that meso cycles of wind flow are also due to landscape differentials.

Specifically, between snow fields and non-snow fields. I think I can explain it different terms.

In physics, energy moves from high state to low state, unless acted upon by an outside force, which is usually another high energy state. Conservation of mass and energy, basic physics, found in both newtonian and quantum theories. Anyway, land without snow is often warmer and so wind would flow from there to the snow fields. In doing so, this creates a low pressure in the warm area, which allows other wind to flow into it, and the wind rushing over snowfields is cooled and flows on until it runs into warmer areas. Nature's air conditioning. These effects have more to do with snow melt or snow accumulation than anything that could possibly be attributed to CO2 or even methane.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:02AM
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The practice of adjusting math and results to support a theory is not new nor specific to AGW. It has been done before, most specifically, with Einstein's theories of relativity and also Quantum Mechanics, as based on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.

These theories, such as the Special Theory of Relativity, were based on legitimate problems of perception. The problem was how does one measure the true speed of light since there is no final frame of reference to measure it from? From Newton, velocities were additive. If two cars are moving toward each other at 30 mph the impact should be a combination of both velocities or the effect of one car hitting an immobile object at 60 mph. And, in accident investigations, this is exactly what they do. The new smart radar that police have is able to subtract the motion of the police car and determine the speed of your car. But according to Einstein, velocities are non-additive.

A little history. Clerk Maxwell successfully combined the theories of magnetism and electricity and came up with field-effect equations and a theoretical calculation of the speed of electromagnetic behavior, of which light is often associated. Roughly, 186,282 miles per second. This was supported experimentally later on by measuring to one frame of reference, the sun. Some light leaves the sun and takes, on average, 8 minutes and 43 seconds to reach the Earth. Many physicists, such as FitzGerald and Lorentz believed there was an aether, a sub-space sort of fabric against which objects of mass would encounter friction or other effects. FitzGerald thought length and time measurements would elongate or contract in contact with this aether and Lorentz came up with equations to describe this, known as the Lorentzian Transforms.

Michelson and Morely tested for the aether and could find none. Shining lights due east and due west, with the direction of the earth's spinning, the addition of velocities against and with the aether should have produced lines of intereference as the light is accelerated in one direction and decelerated in the other direction. No such evidence was found. This experiment led Einstein to say that there was no aether.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:09AM
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But Einstein felt that light must be the same speed regardless of frame of reference because it had been measure to be so, right here, in spite of the movement of the earth, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe itselt. Therefore, for some reason, the speed of light is the same every where and should be measured as such, whether you are in motion or at rest because there is no final frame of reference where you are one or the other. That's all fair enough. But others asked, if nothing could travel faster than light, what about light? Einstein said light was a particle without mass as gravity acts on objects of mass. Yet, we can see light bending it's trajectory around an object such as the moon.

That's what led to the General Theory, brought on by Einstein's use of the Lorentzian Transforms. That's right, Einstein used aether math to describe his general theory. That objects of math bend space and time in their vicinity. Light follows in this time-space fabric and follows the contortions of it, such as the gravity well of a planet. It does describe the effect of it nicely and many took this as proof of the theory. But that doesn't mean the theory is correct. It's not much better than saying the sun orbits around the earth because it does appear that way and that theory worked for eons.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:22AM
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So, let's go with the idea that light is a special particle, not subject to the same laws as everything else. That it is massless, per Einstein's earliest summations. And that light cannot be measured at any speed greater than c. Why should that rule affect objects that have mass? And how do you know that you are not travelling faster than the speed of light? What are you measuring from? Relativity works both ways. To be fair, Einstein, by his own admission, was lousy at math, experience particular difficulty with algebra.

He got hoisted by his own petard in when studying particle physics. In an analysis similar to Poincare's 3-body problem, the only solution that made sense with the evidence was a vector analysis that was the result of the addition of velocities of both particles. Velocities of high speed particles were additive. Einstein said so in his own notes, in the original german.

Then there is his work in QM with Rosen and Podolsky in what became known as the EPR Event.

Due to the conservation of mass and energy in QM, there is a glitch that disproves the limit of the speed of light. Electrons have "spin", a direction of alignment. Usually noted as spin up or spin down for clarity's sake. Whatever the spin is on the nearest electron, the electron on the opposite side of the orbit must have the opposite spin. Always.

If you place an electron micropscope to look at the spin of the electron, the field of the microscope will exert a field effect and it will align the spin up or down. The spin of the opposite side electron must have the other spin. And this happens simultaneously, as in zero time elapsed in synchronization. How can this happen if nothing travels faster than light? This would happen in a microscopic atom, it would happen in an atom the size of the solar system. Darn that Heisenberg, hang him from the highest tree.

Essentially, Einstein falsified his own theory through Quantum Mechanics.

Einstein himself assumed much of his work would be proven wrong and it is only the Einstein faithful that keep the theory alive. They do so with math. They keep adding transforms until the evidence matches the theory. I've seen the Lorentz Group treatment in topology where a hyperbolic trig function is constructed to reflect the transforms, but that's simply another way of using the math to alter data to fit a theory. Like Rev. Billy Graham using 1^3 to show how God is a trinity of personalities. That's fine as long as you ignore the general function of 1^n where n is any number, which proves polytheism, rather than judeo-christianity.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:23AM
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So, I see the same thing in AGW. Where they are constantly making "adjustments" until whatever data presented is altered and fits the original theory. That is not science, that is religion. 1^3
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