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World Climate Report

» A Classic Tale of Global Warming Alarmism

» More Evidence Against a Methane Time Bomb

» Agriculture: Tropical Cyclones are Welcome Visitors

» Sea Level Acceleration: Not so Fast

» Hansen Is Wrong

» Earth’s Carbon Sink Still Strong and Growing

» Wild Speculation on Climate and Polar Bears

» Illiteracy at NASA

» The Heat Was On—Before Urbanization and Greenhouse Gases

» What’s to Blame for the Rains on the Plains?

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NewsBusters - Global Warming

» CNN's Blitzer: 'I Don't Remember' Biden's Law School Plagiarism

» CNN's Chetry: 'Please Tell Me It's Not Lipstick Again'

» MRC Report Asks: Why No Fairness Doctrine for PBS?

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Science and Public Policy Institute

» Growth Rates of Old Versus Young Forest Trees

» Water Use Efficiency of Agricultural Species

» Tropical Trees

» Global Temperatures and Biospheric Productivity

» Rewriting Sunspot History

» Analysis of the Second Order Draft of the Working I Contribution to IPCC 5AR

» The Economics of Biofuels

» The Warming-Induced Evolution of Terrestrial Plants

» Medieval Warm Period in Southern Europe

» Effects of Elevated C02 on the Stomatal Conductance of Agricultural Crops

» Response of Various Marine Animals to Ocean Warming

» Medieval Warm Period in Central Europe

» Growth Response of Grassland Species to Elevated C02 When Water Stressed

» Effects of Increased C02 on Herbaceous Plant Pests

» Medieval Warm Period in Northern Europe

» Loblolly Pines Defy the Progressive Nitrogen Hypothesis

» Response of Crustaceans to Ocean Warming

» Energy Inefficiencies of Biofuels

» Response of Marine Plants to Changes in Temperature

» Biofuels: The Carbon Debt They Owe

» Medieval Warm Period in Japan

» Response of Corals to Ocean Acidification

» Interactive Effects of C02 and Water Stress on the Growth of Woody Plant Species

» Biofuels: Land and Water Concerns

» Medieval Warm Period in Upper North America

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Climate Science: Roger Pielke Sr. Research Group

» Roger Pielke Sr. is now on Twitter!

» 2012 Climate Science Weblog in Review by Dallas Jean Staley – A Guest Post

» The Weblog Is Retiring

» Publication Of “Reply to “Comment On ‘Ocean Heat Content And Earth’s Radiation Imbalance. II. Relation To Climate Shifts’ ” by Nuccitelli Et Al. By Douglass and Knox 2012

» Q&A From A Group Of Retired NASA Personnel And Associates

» The Importance of Land Use/Land Practices On Climate – A Perspective From Jon Foley

» Interview With James Wynn In The English Department At Carnegie Mellon University

» University Of Alabama At Huntsville October 2012 Lower Tropospheric Temperature Analysis

» USA Election Day 2012

» New Paper “Climatic Variability Over Time Scales Spanning Nine Orders of Magnitude: Connecting Milankovitch Cycles With Hurst–Kolmogorov Dynamics” By Markonis And Koutsoyiannis

***


» Gavin Schmidt and the EPA Denial Decision

» Millennial Quebec Tree Rings

» Decomposing Paico

» New Article on Igaliku

» PAGES2K vs the Hanhijarvi Reconstruction

» PAGES2K: More Upside Down?

» Okshola: which way is up?

» Revisions to Pages2K Arctic

» Sliming by Stokes

» ClimateBallers and the MM05 Simulations

***
Watts Up With That?

» Solar flare danger – massive sunspot the size of Jupiter takes aim at Earth

» Claim: Recently discovered Arctic microbe is key player in climate change

» Where Was Climate Research Before Computer Models?

» What would Thucydides do? How to create negative atmospheric pressure in the Ebola hot-zone

» Quicky Mid-October 2014 El Niño Update

» Study: Changing winds cause melting of coastal Antarctic glaciers

» Splattergate II: Machine Gun Shopping Mall massacre promoted as an expression of Green Conscience

» Eye roller: ‘Climate change shrinks goats’

» Climate Craziness of the Week: ‘Exhale up to the atmosphere. Love away the carbon dioxide.’

» John Cook’s claim of a ‘warmer southern ocean’ is proven wrong

» Quote of the week – massive climate FAIL by Mashable’s Andrew Freedman

» Bolt: Bob Ward should apologize to Dr. Bob Carter over ‘the pause’

***
Global Warming News

» EPA’s Clean Power Plan Targets for Virginia: Unlawful Six Ways

» NRDC Left with Egg on Face as “Laughable” Lawsuit Proceeds against Proposed Clean Power Plan

» Which Is the Bigger Threat to People in Developing Countries: Climate Change or Energy Poverty?

» “Topsy-Turvy” Clean Power Plan Could “Substantially” Raise Electric Bills — Virginia State Corporate Commission

» EPA’s Clean Power Plan: Huge Electric Sector Impacts, Undetectably Small Climate Benefits — Study

» The Divestment Movement’s Heart of Darkness

» EPA’s Clean Power Plan: Strategy for One-Party Rule? (Updated 10-17-2014)

» Will eBay Stand with ALEC?

» Good News on Air Quality Not Featured on EPA’s Web Site

» How Unlawful Is EPA’s Clean Power Plan?

***
Fox News - Climate Change Stories

***
Michelle Malkin - Enviro-Nitwits

» Fanboy of scare monger Al Gore accuses conservative of scare mongering about Ebola

» Predictable scapegoat for first ever diagnosis of Ebola in US

» New scare tactic highlights gravity of the ‘climate crisis’

» Obama fires up Air Force One, Marine One, huge motorcade to deliver climate change warning at UN

» Al Gore has lost so much weight that he makes a Prius look like a Chevy Suburban SUV

***
DailyTech Michael Asher`s blog

» Will the Real Antarctica Please Stand Up?

» Global Warming May Decrease Hurricanes, Research Suggests

» Japanese Report Disputes Human Cause for Global Warming

» Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

» A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the (Climate) Forum

» Climate Report Downgrades Ice Loss; Media Reports Opposite

» Princeton Physicist Calls Global Warming Science "Mistaken"

» Defying Predictions, Sea Level Rise Begins to Slow

» Electric Car Sales in Freefall; Industry Risks Collapse

» Glaciers in Norway Growing Again

***
C3 - Climate Cycles Change

» "Hottest" Year? If So, The World's Major Food Crops Are Simply Loving It, Per The USDA

» The Renewable Ears Market Potential: Low Frequency Noise From Wind Turbines Potentially Harmful Long-Term

» Climate headlines from other sources this past week...

» Americans Vote: Climate Change & Global Warming Still Not Important

» CO2's Impact On Global Temperature Trends: Minimal To Non-Existent, Per IPCC's Gold-Standard

» Peer-Reviewed Study: Canadian Climate Warming - Not So Much, eh?

» Climate headlines from other sources this past week...

» Can The All-Electric Nissan Leaf Save The World From A 0.01 Degree Warming? Yep & It Would Only Cost $40+ Trillion

» After 20 Years of Cumulative CO2 Growth, Global Warming Trend Creeps Towards +0.38°C by 2050AD

» Memo To GOP: Cut Def. Budget Until Idiot AGW-Warriors Retired From Service

» Climate headlines from other sources this past week...

» U.S. Wildfires Inversely Correlated With CO2 - The More CO2 The Less Acres Burnt, Per Empirical Evidence

» Comparison of NASA/Hansen Climate Model Vs. Climate Reality: As of August 2014

» Climate Headlines From Other Sources This Past Week

» NOAA Confirms With Empirical Proof: CO2 Changes Not Causing Dangerous Global Temperature Changes

***
CATO - Global Warming

» The German Economy Needs Reforms, Not More Spending

» Bipartisan Corporate Welfare

» In China, Law Isn't Winning

» We Have No Idea if Universal Preschool Actually Helps Kids

» Keep Your Eye on Swaziland

» More Bad News for Airbnb

» ABQ Doesn’t Need Bus-Rapid Transit System

» Living the Easy Life

» Will The Real Government Crony Please Stand Up?

» Washington Should Stop Squandering "Defense" Dollars on Rich Allies and Failed States

» The Optimum Income Taxation

» Obamacare Shunts My Patients into Medicaid

» China's Challenge: Growing the Market, Limiting the State

» Why Doctors Give Obamacare a Failing Grade

» America Adrift

» America's Fatal Blunder in the War against ISIS

» Securing Individual Education of Students and Teachers Simultaneously

» Budget Cuts and Ebola

» In Big Government, Breaking Up Is Always Hard to Do

» U.S. Now Reaping the Iraqi Whirlwind: Washington Should Back out of Iraq's New Civil War

» Mike Pence's Approach to Taxes Earns an 'A'

» Will India Destroy the WTO's Agricultural Reforms?

» Why So Many Are Unemployed for So Long

» The Right Wing Screams for the Wambulance over Gay Marriage Ruling

» The Forever-War President: Obama's 'Transformational' War Powers Legacy

***
CanadaFreePress - Global Warming

» Greens Licking Their Lips Over Carbon Tax Revenues

» Amnesty for 34 Million Illegal Aliens

» German Industry Issues Stark Warning Ahead Of EU Climate Summit

***
More Global Warming Hoax News Feeds

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Headlines

»Weather Channel Co-Founder John Coleman: Climate change PROVED to be ‘nothing but a lie’
In an open letter attacking the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, he wrote: "The ocea ...
»Princeton Physicist Dr. Will Happer: ‘The incredible list of supposed horrors that increasing CO2 will bring the world is pure belief disguised as science’
Climate expert William Happer, from Princeton University:  "No chemical compound in the atmosphere h ...
»56 Studies Confirm: Global warming to increase road rage & fights at baseball games! Is WaPo’s Chris Mooney serious?! Is Mooney serious? Includes charts on ‘retaliatory beanballs’ by MLB pitchers! ‘There’s a surprisingly strong link between climate change and violence’
'For 1 degree Celsius of warming, he'd expect about a 1 percent increase in interpersonal conflicts, ...
»Ottawa under attack by gunmen yet in Canberra the ACT Govt sponsors a drama production ‘Kill Climate Deniers’ specifically portraying an armed siege of the Australian Parliament
»Obama admin & EU demand EVEN MORE HYSTERIA over warming in upcoming UN report – ‘Stronger Climate Warning Sought for Key UN Report’
Bloomberg News: 'The U.S. and European Union are pushing for a stronger explanation about the ...
»Warmer planet ‘no risk to people’, says Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore
»Sociologist Proposes 30-Hour Workweeks In Order To Protect Climate In Austria
»Splattergate II: Green Graphic Novel Celebrates Eco-Terrorism Shopping Mall Killing Spree
»PayPal Co-Founder Is Skeptical of Man-Made Global Warming Because warmists refuse to allow debate the subject
PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel is often considered one of the most influential people in Silicon Vall ...
»Another EPA alarm about rising seas that aren’t rising


Date published: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:50:23 +0000
Details

»Why 2014 Won’t Be the Warmest Year on Record
Much is being made of the “global” surface thermometer data, which three-quarters the wa ...
»Ode to Misinterpretations of the Second Law
Inspired by a couple comments from my solar eclipse post. He said an object that was cold Could not ...
»Solar Thursday USA: An Eclipse AND a Massive Sunspot Group
Residents of the eastern U.S. will be in a particularly good location to see a partial solar eclipse ...
»Dr. Roy’s Earth Today #12: Central Siberian Plateau
Lying mostly north of the Arctic Circle, the Central Siberian Plateau is enjoying sunshine today, bu ...
»From Russia, With Cold
Winter has gotten an early start in Russia, with much of the expansive country already covered in sn ...
»Gonzalo: 144 mph Gust Measured on Bermuda
As predicted, the eye of Hurricane Gonzalo passed directly over Bermuda last night. Most of the isla ...
»Target, Bermuda: Will Hurricane Gonzalo Rival Fabian?
UPDATE 7 am ET Oct. 18: As was forecast, the eye of Gonzalo passed over Bermuda last night. The high ...
»How Safe is the Air You Breathe in Planes?
With increasing concerns that Ebola apparently spreads more readily than we were told, I thought it ...
»Hurricane Gonzalo Intensifying North of Puerto Rico
Here’s the latest MODIS color image of Hurricane Gonzalo, currently a 110 mph (Category 2) sto ...
»Dr. Roy’s Earth Today #11: Dust Over the Arabian Sea
Clouds of dust blow southward out of Pakistan over the Arabian Sea today, as seen in this Terra MODI ...


Date published: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:31:49 +0000
Details

»Testing Blog Cross-Post 2
again
»Reconciling Conflicting Climate Claims
Cross-posted from Coyoteblog At Real Science, Steven Goddard claims this is the coolest summer on re ...
»Computer Models as “Evidence”
Cross-posted from Coyoteblog The BBC has decided not to every talk to climate skeptics again, in par ...
»Another Plea to Global Warming Alarmists on the Phrase “Climate Denier”
Cross-posted from Coyoteblog Stop calling me and other skeptics “climate deniers“.  No o ...
»My Thoughts on Steven Goddard and His Fabricated Temperature Data Claim
Cross-posted from Coyote Blog. Steven Goddard of the Real Science blog has a study that claims that ...
»The Thought Experiment That First Made Me A Climate Skeptic
Please check out my Forbes post today.  Here is how it begins: Last night, the accumulated years of ...
»Explaining the Flaw in Kevin Drum’s (and Apparently Science Magazine’s) Climate Chart
Cross-Posted from Coyoteblog I won’t repeat the analysis, you need to see it here.  Here is th ...
»If You Don’t Like People Saying That Climate Science is Absurd, Stop Publishing Absurd Un-Scientific Charts
Reprinted from Coyoteblog science a “myth”.  As is usual for global warming supporters, ...
»Update On My Climate Model (Spoiler: It’s Doing a Lot Better than the Pros)
Cross posted from Coyoteblog In this post, I want to discuss my just-for-fun model of global tempera ...
»Climate Goundhog Day
I posted something like this over at my other blog but I suppose I should post it here as well.  Fol ...


Date published: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 22:33:21 +0000
Details

»Leading Climate Scientist Defects: No Longer Believes in the ‘Consensus’
By James Delingpole - One of the world’s most eminent climate scientists – for several d ...
»Global Warming and Settled Science
By Andre Lofthus The AGW community would have you believe that the science in favor of AGW is settle ...
»The Tragedy of Earth Day
By Doug L. Hoffman - It is Earth Day today, a chance for all tree huggers, green activists and other ...
»Climate scientist’s emails are shielded from disclosure, Virginia Supreme Court says
By Debra Cassens Weiss - The Virginia Supreme Court has ruled that a climate scientist’s emails are ...
»Global Warming’s Upside-Down Narrative
By Bjorn Lomborg - When politicians around the world tell the story of global warming, they cast it ...


Date published: Thu, 08 May 2014 20:29:04 +0000
Details

»Gavin Schmidt and the EPA Denial Decision
About eight weeks ago, Jean S postulated that Gavin Schmidt had been involved in writing the documen ...
»Millennial Quebec Tree Rings
In today’s post, I’m going to discuss an important new 1000-year chronology from norther ...
»Decomposing Paico
In today’s post, Jean S and I are going to show that the paico reconstruction, as implemented ...
»New Article on Igaliku
Shortly after the publication of PAGES2K, I pointed out that the Igaliku lake sediment proxy, had be ...
»PAGES2K vs the Hanhijarvi Reconstruction
The PAGES2K (2013) Arctic reconstruction of Kaufman et al has attracted considerable attention as a ...
»PAGES2K: More Upside Down?
Does it matter whether proxies are used upside-down or not? Maybe not in Mann-world (where, in respo ...
»Okshola: which way is up?
The recent revisions to PAGES2K included a dramatic flipping of the Hvitarvatn varve series to the o ...
»Revisions to Pages2K Arctic
Kaufman and the PAGES2K Arctic2K group recently published a series of major corrections to their dat ...
»Sliming by Stokes
Stokes’ most recent post, entitled “What Steve McIntyre Won’t Show You Now”, ...
»ClimateBallers and the MM05 Simulations
ClimateBallers are extremely suspicious of the MM05 simulation methodology, to say the least.  A rec ...


Date published: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:52:58 +0000
Details

»Growth Rates of Old Versus Young Forest Trees
The planting and preservation of forests has long been acknowledged to be an effective and environme ...
»Water Use Efficiency of Agricultural Species
In some cases, the water-use efficiency increases caused by atmospheric CO2 enrichment are spectacul ...
»Tropical Trees
Going back in time to the final few years of the 20th century, Schaffer et al. (1997) grew two mango ...
»Global Temperatures and Biospheric Productivity
Among the many climate-alarmist fears of CO2-induced global warming is the concern that the producti ...
»Rewriting Sunspot History
In 2006, when I first made the mistake of writing publicly of my doubts about the Party Line on manm ...
»Analysis of the Second Order Draft of the Working I Contribution to IPCC 5AR
This new review is unlike the previous analysis because it focuses not only on a statistical analysi ...
»The Economics of Biofuels
Aside from rejecting biofuel expansion and use for environmental reasons (see Biofuels (Land and Wat ...
»The Warming-Induced Evolution of Terrestrial Plants
One of the grandest of catastrophes that climate alarmists contend will result from CO2-induced glob ...
»Medieval Warm Period in Southern Europe
Was there really a global Medieval Warm Period? The IPCC used to acknowledge there was; but they hav ...
»Effects of Elevated C02 on the Stomatal Conductance of Agricultural Crops
As the air's CO2 content continues to rise, nearly all plants will respond by reducing their leaf st ...


Date published: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 23:39:52 +0000
Details

»Ottawa under attack by gunmen yet in Canberra the ACT Govt sponsors a drama production “Kill Climate Deniers” specifically portraying an armed siege of the Australian Parliament
As Ottawa is experiencing shootings – you have to pinch yourself that this idiotic arts grant ...
»BBC reporting the UN World Health Organisation is under fire for bungled response to Ebola crisis
Odd that I have not seen this in any Australian news – I see about three TV news channels each ...
»Proposed Bango Wind Farm near Boorowa NSW – an example of five years of multiple regulatory hurdles
The Bango Wind Farm proposal initiated in 2009 extends from north of Yass to SE of Boorowa and is a ...
»Six members of the EU resist moves to 40% emissions cut by 2030
The Polish PM says “…she would block any move that would increase energy bills for Polis ...
»ACT(Canberra) Government plans to source 90% of electricity from renewables by 2020 is in tatters if the Federal Government succeeds in slashing the extravagant Renewable Energy Target (RET) scheme
This map from The Dec 2013 AECOM report Pathways to Wind Power Development in the Australian Capital ...
»Stunning breakthrough in oxygen storage using a cobalt based salt
The Metal Bulletin reports – Cobalt at Centre of Breathtaking Scientific Discovery – the ...
»Six years of electricity price history at the coal-face in Canberra and statements by Minister Corbell
I was curious to chart the recent reduction in electricity costs due to the Carbon Tax being abolish ...
»Where is the technology for this post carbon world that will leave our electricity grids still working 24/7 ?
I see Professor Ian Young – Vice-Chancellor of the Australian National University has this Can ...
»Australian National University divests itself of Australian resource companies
This news has been out a few days and has been discussed at Catallaxy. The seven companies are ...
»I had no idea that Australian Labor Leader Bill Shorten is worried that the Abbott Government is “…a Government of climate sceptics…”
Yesterday top management called out that Bill Shorten had just referred to the Abbott Govt as a ...


Date published: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:48:47 +0000
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Layman's science

Author Post
ron
Fri Jun 19 2009, 09:13PM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
Often is the time where the common man, such as myself, is disenfranchised from scientific debate because we lack the creds, such as a BS, MS, or PhD addended to our name.

That's never stopped me. I've been to college a few times. I am an electrician and started doing electrical work in March of 1983. I have been studying electricity, electrical theory, electronics, physics, and math since about Ocotber of 1974. It was a pivotal year. We moved from California to Texas and my step-grandfather began giving me books and introducing me to that most wonderous treasure, the public libray. You can read about anything you want to learn and no one can stop you.

In organized education and on my own, I have also studied particle physics, linear algebra, n-space geometry, topology, mult0-variable calculus. I've studied a few years of german and have read Einstein's notes in English and the original German. And I have studied basic physics. For the most part, most of us can get by with Newton. When it comes to electrical work, the Bohr model is accurate enough to do what we do. Quantum Mechanics offers some interesting interpretations but if you are an electrician working on an energized circuit, you are safer viewing it from the Bohr perspective.

Anyway, my lack of credentials has not stopped me from reading and trying to understand topics such as global climate. And my background of science and math studies makes it hard for me to ignore the glaring inconsistencies and faults of what I see in the AGW mindset. Granted, we can influence our local environment greatly. I know I have. At times, I've had an attack of gas that ran everyone off. Now, that's influencing the local environment. But it doesn't change the world, at large.

At the basis of science is the practice of observation and the use of the scientific method in testing theories and hypotheses. Collect evidence and make a theory. Test the theory. It may hold until other evidence comes along. If evidence invalidates the theory, either adjust the theory or scrap it all together and make a new theory that accounts for the new evidence, as well as the old evidence. That is science. To adjust data to fit a theory is fantasy. And I see that happening with AGW. It doesn't matter what the evidence is, it is interpreted as supporting AGW. All they have to do is adjust their equations or dream a new causality and their theory is safe, once again. Well, that's just fantasy. Ordinarily, it would be something to chuckle at. The scary thing, is that is has become political and an industry.
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ron
Sat Jun 20 2009, 08:46AM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
Many people do not understand the process of feedback, nor have they been studying electron behavior for as long as I have. There are essentially two types of feed back. Positive feedback and negative feedback. In electronics, the feedback is set by how a transistor is biased for operation. It is often used to modulate a waveform or action. In a transistor operating as an amplifier, the source and the collector are operating at a power factor larger than the input. All the input does is introduce changes of charge in the gate or grid. The change of a few microvolts creates changes in what conducts across the junction. This is negative feedback. In positive feedback the junctions would conduct into saturation, such as the old flip-flop circuits upon which modern computers are based. Those are actually basic simple processes to understand.

In climate, however, there are more factors at play. Clouds are a great example of negative feedback. A cloudy day does several things. The cloud cover holds in some heat from the ground but it also reflects heat back into space from the topside. So, it may not get too hot but it will also not get too cold. That is, the response to one stimulus creates another response that has a remediating or sometimes opposite effect that prevents something from cycling out of control. To the greatest extent, that is how nature works. Concepts of physics and thermodynamics can most easily be described as whether or not something is acted upon by an outside force. The mistake most often made by some people in considering what the climate does is that they do not consider the most powerful outside source, an uncontrolled nuclear reactor 94 million miles above our heads. The ones who say that it doesn't influence us much are simply wrong. That's not an insult or a political point, they are simply wrong. The eruption of one volcano in the effect of reflective aerosols reflecting heat back to space can create a temporary climate change here simply by reducing the amount of sunlight that gets through.

But feedback has a modulating effect. A particular warm season can cause more ice to melt, which changes temp and salinity in the ocean which changes currents and evaporation rates which changes could formation, rain events, cloud cover. And those are mechanisms that have moderating effects. More cloud cover equals more temp equilibrium, more rain, more precipitation in cold climates, which creates more snow and ice that reflect more heat away creating even colder temperatures. Negative feedback.
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Denny
Sat Jun 20 2009, 06:58PM
Registered Member #140
Joined: Sun May 11 2008, 12:38PM
Posts: 2178
Ron, great posts, both of them...keep it up! We appreciate the input!

Denny
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ron
Sun Jun 21 2009, 07:54AM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
Thanks, Denny. I think if I can explain in layman terms, others can understand it easier. Much of actual evidence is displayed in dot graphs and mathematical concepts, which is a language all it's own, but I try to keep things simple, at least for myself.

One of the biggest mistakes in the AGW is a difference of pardigm that does, in fact, ignore the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. AGW believers treat the Earth as a closed system, which it is not. Yes, we have an atmosphere and magnetic belt, but those don't seal us off from the universe at large. Changes in the Sun's behavior do have an effect here. To deny that is to close your eyes and say the sun is not shining. Doing that is like the kid who plugs his ears and says "nanner nanner" so he doesn't have to hear what the adults are saying. Pretending something doesn't exist does not actually make it go away.

Along with the cessation of sunspot activity, there is also precession of orbits. Earth's orbit is not a perfect circle and it varies from slight eliptic to more eliptic. Also, the sun has it's own orbit and does not spin in one exact geometric spot. So, there will be times when the sun is farther away and we are farther and the sunpost cycle is low. And this will have an effect on the weather. It will get colder and all the coal-fired power plants in the world can't stop it. In the not too distant future, we will be praying for some global warming.

Changes may not happen right away. It's June here in Texas. The jetstream has set a ridge over us so the warm air comes from the south and the high pressure and temp inversion knocks down any storms. So, we have highs in the 90's. But summers could drop off gradually. We usually get days and weeks of 100 + F and we call that August. At first, we may only get a few number of days over 100. But year after year a pattern will develope. So, some might say, yeah right. Time will tell. We've already had colder than average winters recently.

Warming is not the problem. Plants grow like crazy when you give them sun, CO2, and water. They don't grow much at all when covered in snow or in temps that don't get above 65 F. That's why people build solariums and hot houses. So they can grow plants in winter, by trapping heat.

Something interesting I have read. Most every knows that CO2 only absorbs and re-emits readiation at a few distinct frequencies. Furthermore, it reaches a saturation point, for lack of a better description. It only absorbs and re-emits to a certain level and is incapable of absorbing more heat or radiation more heat. As a "greenhouse gas," it leaves much to be desired. Or, in other words, at a certain point, it is transparent to heat. It cannot contribute much of anything to global warming.

No, the CO2 scare is thanks to Gore, who didn't get to be president but is still hell-bent on power.
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Denny
Sun Jun 21 2009, 03:31PM
Registered Member #140
Joined: Sun May 11 2008, 12:38PM
Posts: 2178
Say AMEN! I like your Common Sense! Stick around, we need you here!
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ron
Tue Jun 23 2009, 07:23PM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
A question was raised and not answered in the chatbox. The Med Warm period was much warmer than today and more CO2 was in much more abundance, in spite of the current AGW desire to re-align graphs and show that we are near that now. Anyway, the question was asked, how come much higher levels of CO2 did not cause runaway warming and why did the globe, in fact, cool from that? The short answer is that CO2 is not the greenhouse gas that many imagine it to be. And that the sun has more effect than some can admit. And that nature operates on negative feedback. To argue against the past of nature is foolish and unscientific. But you can't hardly stop religious frenzy that wishes to believe one thing regardless of all evidence.
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ron
Tue Jun 23 2009, 07:33PM
Registered Member #378
Joined: Sun Jun 14 2009, 09:02PM
Posts: 431
I suppose I can make these layman viewpoints because if someone can, with no doubt, a serious face, contend that CO2 precedes temp, i.e., make statements of fantasy (statements that may or may not coincide with science) then I can certainly put my two cents in there.

Simple fact of the matter is that despite theories that the polar cap sea ice could melt, Caps are growing thicker, glaciers are growing thicker, we have had two record breaking winters in a row. Snow in Iraq? Normally, one could read something like that in science fiction, like that movie with Dennis Quaid where it is snowing in the desert. But now, that actually happened just recently. Snow in North Dakota in June? Don't be silly. Oops, that happened a few weeks ago.

And incredibly cold and nasty weather down under. Normally, Christchurch, New Zealand is the last port of call before going to Antarctica. But sometimes, it's to cold in the southern hemisphere's winter to accomplish much.

The signs are ripe for an ice age. The sun, the cycles of ice ages, the signs, here and there. I do not see cold, snowy winters as a sign of global warming. That's like saying that it's night time because the sun is out. Then again, if it is a matter of faith, one coud say just about anything and justify it.

The other problem I have is with the use of math to support a theory rather than describe an effect. What happens modernly, is that the evidence doesn't fit the theory so the math is adjusted until it does fit. That isn't science. That is fiction, fantasy. And math's weakness is that you can use it to state anything. The Rev. Billy Graham once used the equation 1^3 to show how God could be a trinity. The problem is, the general function is 1^n, which would also prove polytheism, which was not his intent but there you go. Just because someone can use an equation to describe something doesn't mean the equation reflects reality.
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Wed Jun 24 2009, 05:51AM
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CO2 is a gas excreted by any number of processes, from composting of dead vegetable matter to the waste product of an mammal and some other animals. And it is the most stable food source for plants, who give off waste product in the form of oxygen. So, more CO2 means more plants producing more oxygen. No, I fear that we could alter local environment by continuing to produce engines that, more and more, release water vapor as a waste product. But I could be worrying about nothing. Water vapor creates clouds which have a mediating effect. But, of all the gases, it is water vapor that can have an effect. From basic chemistry water is H2O. That's the fluid to watch.
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Sat Jun 27 2009, 07:20PM
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In the crawling news links on the left, there was a study showing that meso cycles of wind flow are also due to landscape differentials.

Specifically, between snow fields and non-snow fields. I think I can explain it different terms.

In physics, energy moves from high state to low state, unless acted upon by an outside force, which is usually another high energy state. Conservation of mass and energy, basic physics, found in both newtonian and quantum theories. Anyway, land without snow is often warmer and so wind would flow from there to the snow fields. In doing so, this creates a low pressure in the warm area, which allows other wind to flow into it, and the wind rushing over snowfields is cooled and flows on until it runs into warmer areas. Nature's air conditioning. These effects have more to do with snow melt or snow accumulation than anything that could possibly be attributed to CO2 or even methane.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:02AM
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The practice of adjusting math and results to support a theory is not new nor specific to AGW. It has been done before, most specifically, with Einstein's theories of relativity and also Quantum Mechanics, as based on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.

These theories, such as the Special Theory of Relativity, were based on legitimate problems of perception. The problem was how does one measure the true speed of light since there is no final frame of reference to measure it from? From Newton, velocities were additive. If two cars are moving toward each other at 30 mph the impact should be a combination of both velocities or the effect of one car hitting an immobile object at 60 mph. And, in accident investigations, this is exactly what they do. The new smart radar that police have is able to subtract the motion of the police car and determine the speed of your car. But according to Einstein, velocities are non-additive.

A little history. Clerk Maxwell successfully combined the theories of magnetism and electricity and came up with field-effect equations and a theoretical calculation of the speed of electromagnetic behavior, of which light is often associated. Roughly, 186,282 miles per second. This was supported experimentally later on by measuring to one frame of reference, the sun. Some light leaves the sun and takes, on average, 8 minutes and 43 seconds to reach the Earth. Many physicists, such as FitzGerald and Lorentz believed there was an aether, a sub-space sort of fabric against which objects of mass would encounter friction or other effects. FitzGerald thought length and time measurements would elongate or contract in contact with this aether and Lorentz came up with equations to describe this, known as the Lorentzian Transforms.

Michelson and Morely tested for the aether and could find none. Shining lights due east and due west, with the direction of the earth's spinning, the addition of velocities against and with the aether should have produced lines of intereference as the light is accelerated in one direction and decelerated in the other direction. No such evidence was found. This experiment led Einstein to say that there was no aether.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:09AM
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But Einstein felt that light must be the same speed regardless of frame of reference because it had been measure to be so, right here, in spite of the movement of the earth, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe itselt. Therefore, for some reason, the speed of light is the same every where and should be measured as such, whether you are in motion or at rest because there is no final frame of reference where you are one or the other. That's all fair enough. But others asked, if nothing could travel faster than light, what about light? Einstein said light was a particle without mass as gravity acts on objects of mass. Yet, we can see light bending it's trajectory around an object such as the moon.

That's what led to the General Theory, brought on by Einstein's use of the Lorentzian Transforms. That's right, Einstein used aether math to describe his general theory. That objects of math bend space and time in their vicinity. Light follows in this time-space fabric and follows the contortions of it, such as the gravity well of a planet. It does describe the effect of it nicely and many took this as proof of the theory. But that doesn't mean the theory is correct. It's not much better than saying the sun orbits around the earth because it does appear that way and that theory worked for eons.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:22AM
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So, let's go with the idea that light is a special particle, not subject to the same laws as everything else. That it is massless, per Einstein's earliest summations. And that light cannot be measured at any speed greater than c. Why should that rule affect objects that have mass? And how do you know that you are not travelling faster than the speed of light? What are you measuring from? Relativity works both ways. To be fair, Einstein, by his own admission, was lousy at math, experience particular difficulty with algebra.

He got hoisted by his own petard in when studying particle physics. In an analysis similar to Poincare's 3-body problem, the only solution that made sense with the evidence was a vector analysis that was the result of the addition of velocities of both particles. Velocities of high speed particles were additive. Einstein said so in his own notes, in the original german.

Then there is his work in QM with Rosen and Podolsky in what became known as the EPR Event.

Due to the conservation of mass and energy in QM, there is a glitch that disproves the limit of the speed of light. Electrons have "spin", a direction of alignment. Usually noted as spin up or spin down for clarity's sake. Whatever the spin is on the nearest electron, the electron on the opposite side of the orbit must have the opposite spin. Always.

If you place an electron micropscope to look at the spin of the electron, the field of the microscope will exert a field effect and it will align the spin up or down. The spin of the opposite side electron must have the other spin. And this happens simultaneously, as in zero time elapsed in synchronization. How can this happen if nothing travels faster than light? This would happen in a microscopic atom, it would happen in an atom the size of the solar system. Darn that Heisenberg, hang him from the highest tree.

Essentially, Einstein falsified his own theory through Quantum Mechanics.

Einstein himself assumed much of his work would be proven wrong and it is only the Einstein faithful that keep the theory alive. They do so with math. They keep adding transforms until the evidence matches the theory. I've seen the Lorentz Group treatment in topology where a hyperbolic trig function is constructed to reflect the transforms, but that's simply another way of using the math to alter data to fit a theory. Like Rev. Billy Graham using 1^3 to show how God is a trinity of personalities. That's fine as long as you ignore the general function of 1^n where n is any number, which proves polytheism, rather than judeo-christianity.
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Sat Jul 18 2009, 08:23AM
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So, I see the same thing in AGW. Where they are constantly making "adjustments" until whatever data presented is altered and fits the original theory. That is not science, that is religion. 1^3
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